[00:00:00] Vesna: Welcome to the PIC Revival podcast. My name is Vener and I'm joined by my co-host Melissa, who is the coach in my programs. Today we're gonna talk about the myth of pathology ranges such as your pathology tests. There's nothing more frustrating for a woman who walks out of her doctor's appointment to be told that everything looks fine when she feels terrible.
[00:00:20] So let's get started. Welcome, Melissa. Thank you for joining me on this podcast.
[00:00:24] Melissa: Thank you so much for having me. This is a really interesting conversation to be having today because as somebody who runs the accelerator portion of your program, we see this so often with women coming in saying, my pathology is normal. My doctors told me everything is normal, but I'm still feeling awful.
[00:00:43] What is happening there?
[00:00:44] Vesna: Yeah. It's funny because, uh, me and Melissa were talking yesterday's, we're prepping for this, and I was like, how many women? I said, you would hear this, how many women are told. In the program that, you know, they've been to their doctor, they looked at their pathology and everything looks normal. How many women?
[00:00:58] And she said
[00:00:59] Melissa: [00:01:00] Almost all of them. Yes. It's so, it's so much more common than people think. Um, because I think there's just so much faith put into the conventional medicine system where if my pathology tests come back, it's a, it's a yes or a no. It's a black and a white, and I think. Our health is so much more complicated than that.
[00:01:16] It isn't just a black and a white answer, and there are so many other co-factors that go into determining what makes us feel well and what makes us feel unwell. So looking into the kind of more myths of what's going on in that pathology, um, is a really interesting topic.
[00:01:30] Vesna: I guess the purpose of this podcast episode. Episode is to shine a little bit of light on where you're at. So if you've been to the GP or you've been to your physician and you've had your pathology results, looked at and told everything's fine, and you walk out of there really kind of confused because you know you are not fine, you know something is wrong.
[00:01:48] A woman knows her body better than a gp, better than a doctor, okay? Because you live in it all day long. it is very common to hear that and there's a number of reasons which we're gonna talk about [00:02:00] today. But to, for you to know that, you know through this episode, that where you're at is probably more common than not.
[00:02:08] It doesn't mean that there's no imbalances going on inside your body. There actually are things that you can pick up on, which will be. A way to pinpoint why you have the symptoms that you do, and then becomes part of your treatment plan, right, on how to correct those imbalances that are leading to your symptoms so you can get back to feeling you know, better than you've ever felt. the biggest issue with pathology tests is that they're so basic.
[00:02:33] So when you go to the gp, like they just are cholesterol, sugar,
[00:02:37] Melissa: Mm-hmm.
[00:02:38] Vesna: you know, full blood count, uh, kidney function, which is important. Um, so that's your minerals, but it's so basic and so you're not really seeing anything there. Um, and it depends on the GP as well, or on the doctor or the primary physician.
[00:02:52] Right? So it really depends on, What they're gonna decide to test on. Right? And that's really different from doctor to doctor, a hundred percent. and [00:03:00] if you walk away with a very basic assessment, you're not gonna see anything.
[00:03:03] Melissa: can you give me an example of a conventional pathology range versus an optimal range? Because we, you know, we talk about what is the truth about normal ranges, and most people assume that normal means healthy, but what you're saying is that there is actually something else. Kind of going on there and there could be further investigation into what's happening. so first off, I guess what are the reference ranges that we're receiving in the conventional system, and how are those measured? And then is there an example of a conventional pathology versus an optimal range?
[00:03:37] Vesna: Yeah, so firstly to look at the pathology ranges, where do they come from? Right? And they're based on the average of people who have their blood checked, and people normally go to the doctor to have their blood checked when they're sick. So it's the average of sick people, so there's nothing optimal about it.
[00:03:54] Right? So therefore, you know, you can go there and you'll still be in these very [00:04:00] broad ranges. For example, to give an example, like a thyroid test, you know, the TSH, you could be up in the fours and they go, everything looks normal, But we are looking between one and two TSH levels as being optimal.
[00:04:14] And that's one marker. So if that comes back normal, according to them in that range, they won't do any further investigation and you'll be, it'll be tough to press them for further investigation because they're bound by Medicare and things like that. but that doesn't really tell you anything. I have clients with severe Hashimoto's, an autoimmune condition of the thyroid that have normal TSH levels, It's not an accurate picture of what's going on. So yeah, the ranges are based on the average of sick people, so they're not optimal ranges. And so you can, particularly for women, it can take years for a woman to get a proper diagnosis up to five years. You could be within those ranges.
[00:04:53] You could, one, not have the proper markers checked. Two, you could be within those ranges, but be at a very suboptimal [00:05:00] level. And you're feeling it before it becomes real pathology. Right. And you know, sometimes when women walk out of there, they're like, oh, I didn't get a, didn't get a, not a diagnosis, but you know, something like that. And in, in one case, that's a good thing because you don't want a diagnosis, you don't want something that you carry with you. But on the other hand, it feels kind of, um, disappointing and confusing and frustrating because then you dunno what to work on. You dunno what to fix because you don't feel good.
[00:05:28] that's the first thing to bear in mind is that the ranges are suboptimal. They're not showing what those markers should be for you to be feeling at your absolute best.
[00:05:37] and this is where, one, it's basic testing. Two, the ranges adjust very, very broad. So kind of even as a, as a general, uh, rule, what you wanna look at is You know, you don't wanna be close to the low end. You don't wanna be close to the high end. You wanna be sitting somewhere in the middle, right? If you just were to look at it generally, and that's not for all markers, but on on [00:06:00] a basic level, you wanna be somewhere in the middle. So if your vitamin D is down at like 50 and your doctor's like, oh, it's within range, that's great.
[00:06:08] Oh, it should be much better than that, right? That's not an optimal level. That's basic. that's, you know, not enough, not enough for bone health and not enough for the immune system, et cetera. So that kind of thing.
[00:06:19] Melissa: And it's not that there's anything wrong with the conventional system, I think it has its purposes
[00:06:23] Vesna: I think we've been. Conditioned to take our health to the doctor to fix it.
[00:06:30] Melissa: Mm-hmm.
[00:06:31] Vesna: there's a little bit of, well, I don't understand this, so I've gotta go see the doctor and he's gonna ex he or she's going to explain it to me.
[00:06:38] But, you know, there's a definitely a, a shift now where people are taking personal responsibility for their health and that's where it really needs to sit because. I mean, like I said, you live in your body. You know what you're doing. You know what you should be feeling, and only you can make those changes.
[00:06:55] But you have to be accountable to yourself. And so if you go to a GP and they don't [00:07:00] give you the results that you want, well either you get a second opinion or you take it upon yourself to pay for those pathology tests and get it done. Because the one thing I'll always say is that you might go, oh, I probably didn't, probably don't need that.
[00:07:13] Right? Like, how often do we have in the group? Like we've got quite extensive. Pathology tests we've got like you can do them more advanced, but these are the bulk of what we really encourage you to do. And I always say that if you don't do it now, you might have something two or three years down the track that could have been caught and could have been prevented if it was just checked.
[00:07:38] And so that is the benefits of. Pathology testing and looking at those optimal ranges to really find out where your health is headed and, you know, inform part of your treatment plan, but it's prevention down the line or accurate treatment right now.
[00:07:55] Melissa: and as you said, we do see this a lot in the calls where there are kind of two [00:08:00] barriers. When it comes to the pathology results, right? The first one is getting the tests. So actually going into the doctor and saying, I need these tests. and you do talk about it a lot in your program about how to get the doctor to listen to you, how to get them to really hear you and not feel like, okay, I need to go in and, and I'm just, I'm not gonna be heard.
[00:08:18] I'm not gonna be seen. Um, really advocating for yourself in that matter. So the, the first barrier that we see a lot is just even getting the tests done, going to the GP and saying, Hey, I need all these tests. And them kind of just saying, well, you look fine, or, you know, we can't do that one, or we can't do this one, and they're kind of doing maybe 70% of them.
[00:08:39] And then, women are having to find other avenues to get that, that extra 30% done. because yeah, and, and, and it's unfortunate to see, but, um, I think there is, like you said, there's this movement for women to really advocate for themselves and take action, right? There's, there's a difference between having somebody say, oh, you can't, or, oh, I'm [00:09:00] not gonna do this on your behalf.
[00:09:02] And then taking responsibility and then going and doing it yourself. So that's kind of the first barrier that we see.
[00:09:08] Vesna: You know when you go to see the doctor and he's like, where did you get this from? You know, why do you want these tests? You know, it's a little bit patronizing, right? Can be, can be.
[00:09:17] Melissa: It can be intimidating too.
[00:09:19] Vesna: Yeah, so women are intimidated to ask, but you have to understand he may be a doctor, but he's not the expert on your body.
[00:09:27] Like you are the expert on your body. You know how you feel. You know when something's off. And just because you are going, like, I encourage women because you are doing the work, like you are being proactive, you are health conscious, so you are going to him. Being health conscious and asking for these tests, it does not mean that he's right and you are wrong.
[00:09:51] Melissa: Yes.
[00:09:52] Vesna: And I think that's the attitude that you have to go in there with is like, just because he doesn't see or feel what I feel does not make his interpretation [00:10:00] right and mine wrong. Like, I wanna have these tests done. I wanna find out what's going on. I wanna, I want my life back. Do you know I wanna feel better. so yeah, just because he is an, he is a medical doctor and expert on the human body, he's not an expert on your body,
[00:10:14] Melissa: and then so the second barrier that I see a lot in the calls when it comes to pathology tests is also interpreting the results. So we did talk about the optimal ranges, um, but I've heard you mention many times there are so many other factors that go into it. Lifestyle, context, symptoms, stress, like all of these different things that play into, into how a reading can be done and,
[00:10:37] Is there an optimal time to get tests or, you know, how, how much could stress impact a pathology review or a pathology reading? how do these factors play into that?
[00:10:48] Vesna: Yeah, definitely. So obviously you know, you know that for when we. Recommend our, the lab tests that we wanna see. We also give guidance on how to have those taken, such as [00:11:00] in the morning, don't be running around stress to trying to squeeze it in. Like you really wanna have a slow morning because we are checking cortisol, right?
[00:11:07] Your stress hormone. Like we don't want it to be extremely high. based on your morning events. so yeah, that's one, making sure you're not having a rushed morning, making sure you're not sick.
[00:11:16] Like if you've been sick with an infection, like don't go in, like wait till that fully passes, you know, lots of water fasting. but really, Trying not to have a stressful morning going in because, um, it will throw off some of your readings. And same if you've been sick, right? That'll definitely throw off your readings, you know, could throw off a lot of different markers, which won't be accurate.
[00:11:38] So yeah, you really wanna prep for the test. You really wanna go in there and, make time for it.
[00:11:43] Melissa: why do you feel that people trust the tests more than their own body? What kind of conditioning do you think is there?
[00:11:49] Vesna: Good question. I think we've just been white lab coat programmed.
[00:11:55] Do you know, I mean, not that doctors wear white lab coats anymore, but, um, we've just [00:12:00] been programmed. It's just like I, that's my personal opinion. Like, it's just like when a police officer pulls me over for, if I get a breath test or something, I automatically feel like I'm guilty of something. Even though I'm not right, but it's, it's just the programming. Um, and I think that it's been indoctrinated into us that the doctor is, you know, he knows best, but that's changing, right? Women are really challenging what they see and they're really being proactive, which is great.
[00:12:28] Like one of the things I'll say to women is that when you go in there, just explain to them like, these are the tests that I've looked up that I want, or I've been recommended by my naturopath to get, because I'm being proactive about my health. Because I'm not gonna sit around and wait for chronic disease or something to go wrong.
[00:12:43] I know I don't feel right and I wanna be proactive and on top of this and take care of myself and take full accountability for my health. And I think that says a lot if you were to say that to a doctor, 'cause it's like, okay, that's someone who really wants to take care of themselves.
[00:12:58] Melissa: I think you're right. I think there is a [00:13:00] move now towards reclaiming our own sense of autonomy, our own sense of understanding. What's going on in our bodies. I think especially as women, we have a deep innate sense of ourselves and you know, you look back many generations and in old traditional, um, medicine, it's always women who are the carriers of the knowledge of, of medicine and feeling into the body and feeling what's wrong, using more, um.
[00:13:31] Natural means to, to cure these ailments that people have. And I think, yeah, like you said at one point there was kind of this push for indoctrinating people into believing what was happening in more western science and move away from traditional sciences, eastern sciences, that's great.
[00:13:49] I think that we need both. I think that there is a place for western science in the medical field. but I think that the more we speak up about the intelligence [00:14:00] in our own body and knowing what's wrong with our own body, the more important it becomes to look at other avenues of medicine rather than just the traditional or the conventional sense that we've been so embedded in for so long.
[00:14:12] Vesna: Yeah, agree. You really, I mean, again, just. understanding the cues from your body, like your body is giving you signals through those symptoms like that, that needs to be looked at, and no one knows it best than the person living in that body. I do wanna add one thing, which is if you're in this position where you know your doctor won't do further testing or you dunno what testing to do, okay, that's definitely another one. And we talk about that a lot in our programs. We have a whole list, but. You can order the test yourself, and you can do that online really easily.
[00:14:45] And you know, there's places like i-screen.com au or nz. there's Ulta, Ulta Health. ULTA in, um, the us. Um, so there are places online where you can [00:15:00] order the test yourself, and I really encourage you to do that because if you already know that going to the GP is going to be an issue for you, that you can't get what you want tested, then pay out of pocket pay for it yourself.
[00:15:13] 'cause. If something's missed, like I said, it could be missed for years and then eventually down the line in five years time, you'd be like, I wish I had just checked that. Like, why didn't I check that years ago? Right. I would hate someone to be in that position. Right. you know, just to kind of, rehash on this episode, I think what we are saying is advocate for yourself.
[00:15:33] Right? you are the expert of your body. No one else can be the expert of your body. Like people can guide you. Um, and we definitely guide women every day, but you know, if you were to say to me, but for I feel like this, I'd be like, Nope, all of your results look fine. There's nothing wrong there. Like, that would be so crazy, even me to just ignore someone.
[00:15:53] ‘ cause they know, right? So I think. Advocating for yourself, taking accountability, taking [00:16:00] responsibility, which means those follow up actions to improve your health, whatever that looks like. And I think that if you're just relying on the doctor, I don't know. I just, I wouldn't, I really wouldn't, that would be my closing advice because it's such a narrow, like, like Melissa was saying, it's really important that we incorporate Western scientists, um, western medicine.
[00:16:21] Right. But it's a, it's one part. When we have thousands of years of traditional medicine, um, at our disposal, that can help us regain our health and longevity and, you know, operate at a much higher level. But we need to look at everything.
[00:16:42] so I hope this episode was helpful, and if you see an ability to leave a comment, I'd love for you to leave a comment because I know that this situation happens so often for women that they, you know, don't get the tests they want, their symptoms are ignored. And so I just want you to know [00:17:00] that if you are feeling not right.
[00:17:03] Check, like do what it takes to get those tests done. Find out what tests you need, get them done. Pay for them yourselves. Whatever you have to do to find out exactly what's going on for you is really important, and that's a part of being proactive and taking care of yourself and being accountable. So if you can leave a comment, please do so below Low.
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